Curse

Jenn · Oct 13, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

I will concede that the idea almost makes sense, but I seriously fear its use. The last thing I want is some dumb squishy in a pug bringing frenzy. It would make me cry so hard, because I just KNOW that someone would echo MS in the middle of a HM dungeon where mobs are pounding on that person.

Not to mention casters can bring increased spell casting skills already, maybe not 50%, but that's a risk I'm willing to take

/notsignededed

germanturkey · Oct 13, 2008, 10:05 PM // 22:05

not signed. i use mindbender. and i agree with the person who said "33% faster recharge" that would be pretty cool.

Bowstring Badass · Oct 13, 2008, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I'm pretty sure that 40/40 sets take care of fast casting.

I don't want warriors hitting for 300+ because I was in frenzy.

I would like to hit for +300 dmg.

Bad idea is bad anyway.

Jeydra · Oct 13, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Just want to elaborate on some things:

On 40/40 sets - these are great, but not reliable. You cannot rely on them to give you spike output; to spike effectively using them you need two or more consecutive quartercasts, which is certainly rare, and not to mention that you can't get quartercasts at will.

On 50% faster WoHs, fast cast + Frenzy Mesmers and similar - have to remember than Frenzy is a stance that doubles the damage you take, especially since casters have 60 armor. You risk taking 200+ damage from a single attack while in the stance and have to be ready to cancel. If this change is implemented I highly doubt there will be any Monks brave enough to bring Frenzy. If anyone can name a certain imbalance resulting from this change please point it out.

On 'this skill is bad because casters are primary targets' and similar - well if this change is implemented there's nothing forcing a caster to bring it. If a caster doesn't want to give up his utility skills then he simply unequips Frenzy, Bit like Supportive Spirit is a bad skill but nobody's asking Monks to bring it.

On Elementalists deal a lot of damage already - there's no question that Elementalist damage is bad outside of PvE and possibly HA, and physicals deal a lot more damage. Even with this change Elementalists still get no Deep Wound, although the ability to switch targets easily would probably promote Elementalist damage.

On 'this skill is bad because someone will Echo Frenzy Meteor Shower in AB' and similar - this is no argument, there're already people who use Frenzy as their IAS on Assassins while taking damage, but it doesn't make Frenzy a bad skill; just bad players.

I'm surprised so many people think this idea is bad and wasn't expecting that much criticism (although I must say that most critique seems to be rather ... weak). Oh well, not for me to decide on balance changes anyway.

Mr. G · Oct 13, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

I'll stop this barrage of (rightly put) complaints about your skill to point out:

Quote:

Mesmers become useless since you can now duplicate Fast Casting with Frenzy

sooooooo not what mesmers are for, Fast casting isnt for casting other classes spells faster (which is a very nice side effect) its to stop other classes abusing the overpowered mesmer skills - oh and for stance casting, which is always nice

Darkobra · Oct 14, 2008, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

If this change is implemented I highly doubt there will be any Monks brave enough to bring Frenzy. If anyone can name a certain imbalance resulting from this change please point it out.

Protective Spirit.

Jeydra · Oct 14, 2008, 07:10 AM // 07:10

I wasn't going to post, but I can't help it - whatever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

Protective Spirit.

Yes, and Frenzied Defenses Monks are all rampant. Now please enlighten me why Mo/W's are quite rare outside of RA, and even when they show up in whatever PvP format they rarely ever carry Frenzied Defenses (never, in fact, outside of RA - Frenzied Defenses doesn't even show up in TA). I mean, the Monk can always put Protective Spirit on himself right? Then he gets the fantastic 75% permablock that owns the crap out of Warriors, which in Guild Wars means over 80% of a team's damage.

/lol /laugh /sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm

Frankly I'm impressed by the number of people posting who post a few one-liners in a seemingly very-knowledgeable manner, but shoot off at tangents that all too clearly show a lack of depth. If you're going to convince me that Monks would indeed bring the new Frenzy I proposed above as well as devote two skills on their bar to Frenzy + a cancel stance, you're going to have to come up with a lot more substantial reasons.

tmakinen · Oct 14, 2008, 07:40 AM // 07:40

I'm kind of entertained by the idea but I don't find the suggested implementation feasible. How about this instead:

Trance (5e 15r) Stance. For 8 seconds, your spells cast and recharge 33% faster and your skills are easily interrupted. Trance ends if you are interrupted. When Trance ends, you are Dazed for 5 seconds (Mesmer Unlinked).

Darkobra · Oct 14, 2008, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I wasn't going to post, but I can't help it - whatever.

Yes, and Frenzied Defenses Monks are all rampant. Now please enlighten me why Mo/W's are quite rare outside of RA, and even when they show up in whatever PvP format they rarely ever carry Frenzied Defenses (never, in fact, outside of RA - Frenzied Defenses doesn't even show up in TA). I mean, the Monk can always put Protective Spirit on himself right? Then he gets the fantastic 75% permablock that owns the crap out of Warriors, which in Guild Wars means over 80% of a team's damage.

/lol /laugh /sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm

Frankly I'm impressed by the number of people posting who post a few one-liners in a seemingly very-knowledgeable manner, but shoot off at tangents that all too clearly show a lack of depth. If you're going to convince me that Monks would indeed bring the new Frenzy I proposed above as well as devote two skills on their bar to Frenzy + a cancel stance, you're going to have to come up with a lot more substantial reasons.

If you are as sagacious as you claim, you'd know why it wasn't worth my time to post more. You already have the insight to the strengths and weaknesses of a ridiculous skill and still expect it to be implemented.

Do you play a protection monk yourself in anything outside RA?

Perfected Shadow · Oct 14, 2008, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Maybe tone it down to +33% casting speed.

About prot spirit, I think it's fairly easy to rip it and coordinate with a warrior to cave the monk's skull in, unless the monk's willing to blow energy on covering prot spirit all the time.

DarkGanni · Oct 14, 2008, 11:23 AM // 11:23

40/40 set and Mindbender say hello, also an essence is a permanent 25% casting/recharge. There's more than enough to cast faster, you just need to know how to.

- Ganni

Lourens · Oct 14, 2008, 11:31 AM // 11:31

[protective spirit] <3

really this is a lame idea

but maybe for 8 sec all spells you cast cause 33% more damage and you take double damage ( Enchantment 25 energy 60 seconds recharge)

DarkNecrid · Oct 14, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

sooooooo not what mesmers are for, Fast casting isnt for casting other classes spells faster (which is a very nice side effect) its to stop other classes abusing the overpowered mesmer skills - oh and for stance casting, which is always nice

Fast Cast Water Eles say hi and that you are wrong.

This idea is rather worthless. Frenzy works on frontliners because frontliner's are rarely targeted first. A similar effect on a backliner would be devastating and never see play.

Da Rk Bl Ad E · Oct 14, 2008, 09:57 PM // 21:57

everyone saying prot spirit, in most organised pvp before you spike the target it will be rended...Isn't that common sense?

and everyone saying mindbender, was this not aimed more at pvp use? If not sorry I've misunderstood this.

(I still think this is baed btw)

Jeydra · Oct 16, 2008, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow

About prot spirit, I think it's fairly easy to rip it and coordinate with a warrior to cave the monk's skull in, unless the monk's willing to blow energy on covering prot spirit all the time.

Tell that to the sagacious guy who posted just before you.

Quote:

and everyone saying mindbender, was this not aimed more at pvp use? If not sorry I've misunderstood this.

Yes, this is aimed at PvP use. If implemented it would be a massive change and so very likely lead to some imbalances - it would open up every caster class to damage roles all of a sudden, which is a flood of new possibilities and so there's a good chance there'll be an imbalance somewhere. But that I think is a great way to rejuvinate the PvP scene, which has been rather stale for a while.

In spite of all the criticism I still like the idea. Maybe the numbers aren't the best and maybe the result is imbalanced. But single change -> lots of new options. How many single changes can do that?

Snow Bunny · Oct 16, 2008, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Just run Mesmer primaries on everything then.

Painbringer · Oct 16, 2008, 03:11 PM // 15:11

play a mesmer

can you imagine how fast I could get off meteor shower as mesmer with this frenzy going.

Aubrey · Oct 16, 2008, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Nice try, but \notsigned. Too powerful and as primarily a weapon-basher, I hate Messies already for this!

trankle · Oct 16, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

I'm not particularly hot on the idea (tmakinen's sounds better to me), but I have a mechanics question.

How would canceling work exactly? Let's say I activate Frenzy, then start casting Meteor Shower, with a new casting time of 2.5 seconds. As soon as I begin casting, I begin taking big damage, and I activate Sprint to cancel Frenzy. Do I still get the already started 2.5 second casting time? Does it revert back to 5 seconds? Does MS fail? Does Sprint fail until my cast is complete, making me take double damage for all 2.5 seconds?

Zahr Dalsk · Oct 16, 2008, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Roll a mesmer.

/notsigned